We Talked with Eric Gorges about designing and building Motorcycles and his show on PBS, A Craftsman’s Legacy, where he seeks out other master craftspeople to get at a taste of their craft and learn from their experiences.
Audio Version
Video Version
You can find more about Eric Gorges At:
The Craftsman’s Legacy on Instagram
Websites http://voodoochoppers.com/ and https://www.craftsmanslegacy.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CraftsmansLegacy
Check out his book
A CRAFTSMAN’S LEGACY: WHY WORKING WITH OUR HANDS GIVES US MEANING
Hosted by
Greg Porter
https://skyscraperguitars.com/
Greg On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gregsgaragekc/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SkyscraperGuitars
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/GregsGarage
Brian Benham
https://www.brianbenham.com/
Brian On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benham_design/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXO8f1IIliMKKlu5PgSpodQ
Transcript
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:03:05
Brian Benham
All right. You are listening to the Makers Quest podcast. I’m Brian Byrne.
00:00:03:05 – 00:00:27:14
Greg Porter
And I’m Craig Porter. And tonight we are here or today, depending on what time you’re listening to this with Eric Gorgeous. Eric is a bike builder who is on the Discovery Channel in the great biker build off. You may know him from there, but he’s also got a show on PBS that’s called the Craftsman’s Legacy. And it was on PBS, I understand.
00:00:27:14 – 00:00:34:00
Greg Porter
And now it’s actually on YouTube. So you can catch, I think, season five and beyond on YouTube. Am I getting that right, Eric?
00:00:34:01 – 00:00:35:04
Eric Gorges
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
00:00:35:04 – 00:00:48:15
Greg Porter
Wonderful. Well, it’s great to have you here with us to chat this evening. Before I forget about it, Eric’s website is Voodoo Choppers dot com. And you want to shout out your social media real quick for everybody.
00:00:48:15 – 00:01:01:04
Eric Gorges
The craftsman’s legacy, you know, on Instagram and Facebook and whatnot. And then new chapters, Facebook and Instagram and all that. So and then YouTube is.
00:01:02:18 – 00:01:25:04
Greg Porter
Perfect for those who don’t know. And Eric and Brian and I were talking a little bit before we hit the record button. Some people know Eric from the motorcycle world and some people know him from the television world. I want to back up and start probably even before the motorcycles. You worked with a guy that I have great reverence for Ron Fournier.
00:01:25:09 – 00:01:36:17
Greg Porter
Now, I hope I’m saying his last name right. I’ve never met Ron, but I’ve read his books and he was a huge inspiration to me back when I got into metalworking. But you were building hot rods for him or with him?
00:01:36:19 – 00:02:06:09
Eric Gorges
That’s correct. Yeah. Yeah. Ron Fournier. And when I decided I wanted to get into metalwork, Ron had a shop that was, you know, a couple of cities over from where I was living. And I went over there and, you know, we sort of hit it off real early and then about a year later, he took me on as an apprentice and I spent a couple of years working with Ron Perlman.
00:02:06:09 – 00:02:27:01
Eric Gorges
And it was it was fantastic because, you know, Ron was you know, he was a phenomenal fabricator and and shape or metal shaper, and he had just done it for so long. He knew what was going to happen, you know, And I learned so much from him. And I’m grateful for the time I spent with him. You know, the.
00:02:27:06 – 00:02:53:11
Greg Porter
The little that I’ve seen of Ron, I say the little you know, I’ve studied the stuff that he’s put out there for people to look at. Yeah, he’s he seems like his approach to problem solving is a unique approach. And in that just how he approaches it I suppose, and you may have a little more insight into this than I do that that he’s just been handed so many oddball problems that you, you get this innate sense of what to do next.
00:02:53:11 – 00:03:22:03
Greg Porter
I mean, some of the building a car is very complex for those people who do never done it before. And even if you’re doing restoration work, it can be extraordinarily, extraordinarily complex with regard to the order of operations, What happens next? How do you how do you close this gap that seems on close the ball is how much did you pick up from him, I guess, and just your approach to doing problem A or problem B quite a bit probably.
00:03:22:03 – 00:03:52:24
Eric Gorges
You know, the thing about it is, you know, the size of the project, it really is irrelevant, right? It’s one thing at a time. And knowing the order of operations as you say, is really important, but the clarity and the ability to sort of play chess with it a little bit and look, five moves, six moves, seven moves down the road on a project, comes with time and experience, right?
00:03:53:00 – 00:04:16:08
Eric Gorges
Like the way you would approach a project as an apprentice would be vastly different than somebody who’s been doing it for 20 years. You know what I mean? Because they’re going to have that that that history, that knowledge base of knowing like, okay, I need to look at this because there’s an intersection point here and then I’ve got a collision issue here.
00:04:16:08 – 00:04:27:09
Eric Gorges
And, you know, you sort of see those traps ahead of time, whereas, you know, when you’re starting out, that’s that’s how you’re learning is by finding those traps. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don’t know if that makes sense.
00:04:27:16 – 00:04:48:07
Greg Porter
It does. And I often say or I often think I do share it with people that you learn by making the mistakes. So you have to make every mistake one time and then you learn not to do it again. And every once in a while you find a really great mentor or instructor that can see you getting ready to make the mistake and tell you this is what it’s going to happen.
00:04:48:14 – 00:05:07:05
Greg Porter
If you stop doing it this way and start doing it that way, you can avoid, you know, this, this thing, but you have to step through everyone. One of my good friends, gosh, back when I was bringing him in houses, he taught me carpentry and he said, You have to pay your tuition. Whether you pay the school or you pay it in the school of hard knocks, you got to pay your tuition.
00:05:07:21 – 00:05:28:05
Eric Gorges
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s really you know, at the end of the day, my daughter’s in college and I tell her all the time, I say, You know, sweetie, it doesn’t really it doesn’t matter. If you want to be good at something, it’s it’s going to be hard work. There’s just no way around it, you know? It’s just a lot of hard work.
00:05:28:08 – 00:05:47:05
Eric Gorges
You’re going to have ups, you’re going to have downs. And but at the end of the day, you got to just, you know, keep keep that focus and keep moving forward and realize that over time, you might lose ground every once in a while, but over time, you’re going to gain a lot of ground, you know, And it’s just, you know.
00:05:47:09 – 00:05:59:09
Brian Benham
So we’ll see. We’ll see. A big inspiration on your current design style for your for your bikes that you build, or did you have something that really puts you down this path of like, hey, I’m going to I’m going to go build bikes?
00:05:59:19 – 00:06:30:15
Eric Gorges
No, the bikes will run was doing mostly restoration work and really high end rare collectible cars like one of six type cars, you know, one of three type cars, that type of stuff. But I when I started with him, I told him like, hey, I’m doing this because I want to open up a motorcycle shop and I want to be able to build custom bikes.
00:06:30:15 – 00:06:57:08
Eric Gorges
And, you know, so it was it was very separate. And, you know, the thing about, you know, really, no matter if it’s woodworking or no matter what field you’re getting into when you’re making something, unless you’re duplicating design, which is a whole other craft in and of itself, right? You have to find your own style, your way, your look and for me, that was definitely something that just evolved over time, you know?
00:06:57:08 – 00:07:18:11
Eric Gorges
And early on when, when, when I started to, it was sort of like, you know, you would you know, you would take a take on work just to have work or just to keep money rolling. And it didn’t really matter if I liked it or not. And back then it didn’t have a name, you know, you couldn’t I couldn’t sell on previous work, right?
00:07:19:01 – 00:07:54:24
Eric Gorges
So you built what the client wanted and I built a bunch of stuff that wasn’t necessarily my style. And I tried to infuse some of my style in it, but I learned from that still. But over time, my style developed and developing continued that. And then it got to a point where where, you know, people that were into motorcycles, into custom handmade motorcycles, could recognize my bikes without they could do it from they could recognize it from a distance without even seeing it up close and see the name on it, you know, because that just that just happened as a as a builder, you know, put.
00:07:54:24 – 00:07:59:09
Brian Benham
In a stuff out there, people start to realize, hey, that looks kind of like an Eric gorgeous going by there.
00:07:59:19 – 00:08:18:00
Eric Gorges
Yeah. Yeah. And here you know, I’ve heard it many, many many times from people and they’re like, you know, I saw I you know, I was over here, I saw a bike and I was like, man, that’s voodoo. And, you know, and then sure enough, I walked up on it. I saw the tag on the seat or, you know, I saw the, you know, the stamp on the tank or whatever it is.
00:08:18:00 – 00:08:18:15
Eric Gorges
You know what I mean?
00:08:18:15 – 00:08:29:11
Brian Benham
So cool. So when you’re when you’re starting on a new build, I was watching your Instagram and it looked like you’re I’m I’m assuming that crack that this is a new project that you’re starting on.
00:08:30:00 – 00:08:59:07
Eric Gorges
The one I’ve been posted on Instagram lately is a knucklehead project that we’re getting involved in. And I’ve been building a frame for it. And you know, the funny thing is, man, I started that frame like in June of 22 with the intent of rolling right into making that frame. So I started doing all the machining and I had to do a bunch of picture work for it and everything else.
00:08:59:22 – 00:09:20:10
Eric Gorges
And, and then, you know, a bunch of other projects that were in the shop sort of got in the way and I needed to help out there. So I really set the knuckle project off to the side for a minute and I got back on it in December, I think. And you know, it’s a pretty complicated frame, but I’m not fast in anything anymore.
00:09:21:06 – 00:09:41:02
Eric Gorges
You know, like the only thing that’s with me that’s come with time is is I’m way more meticulous, you know, like every time I do something, I’m more and more more meticulous about it. And I pay more attention to every little detail, you know, which I like, you know, and I don’t really care about how long something takes that’s.
00:09:41:04 – 00:09:51:03
Brian Benham
Kind of like more of the the more you know, the more you don’t know. And then the more that you know, the more particular you become about the things you don’t know. Trying to make it all fit just perfect.
00:09:51:15 – 00:10:16:16
Eric Gorges
Yeah. And, you know, like I was saying earlier, you you start, you think about things, you know, farther in advance. You know how cables are going around, how that goes good around, you know, a lot a lot more usability as far as like getting access to the battery and, you know, oil tank and things like that. Like stuff when I was younger, building younger, I didn’t I didn’t care so much about it.
00:10:16:16 – 00:10:38:04
Eric Gorges
I was like, Oh yeah, we’ll stuff the battery under here will be impossible to get to. You’ll have to remove the starter to get to it or whatever. And, and you’re like, oh, but it looks so cool, you know, And then you start thinking about this stuff more, then you’re like, Yeah, there’s other ways of doing that and it still looks kick ass, but it’s, it’s way more serviceable.
00:10:38:04 – 00:10:38:13
Eric Gorges
You know.
00:10:38:19 – 00:11:22:20
Greg Porter
It’s the form and function refinement over time and I think So you don’t know this, Eric, but I’m an architect, right? And so in our studio, we, we cover some pretty complex problems and I talk all the time about the clean white box is the hardest damn thing to design because there’s so much to making it clean. And I think when you look at well defined or well refined, whether it’s going to a car show and seeing some of the custom cars that the, you know, top tier builders are putting out or it’s motorcycles that the top tier guys are putting out, there’s a level of cleanliness and refinement where, you know, the way a
00:11:22:20 – 00:11:41:20
Greg Porter
fender attaches to a front fork is in isn’t by accident. Every little bolt in detail is there on purpose, and it’s been refined to the point where it’s like that is a kick ass way to do that. And if you change one little detail, it starts to unravel just a little bit.
00:11:41:20 – 00:12:08:13
Eric Gorges
Yeah, and that simplistic style is definitely a key attribute in, in my style of building. You know, I like to make all of the bikes look incredibly simple to the eye, you know, and, and but the more you dive into it, the more you look, the more you see, the more detail you see, the more unravels. The the more complex it actually becomes.
00:12:08:13 – 00:12:35:24
Eric Gorges
But unless you pay pay attention and really look and dig into it, you wouldn’t notice. You know, you would if somebody was walking by, they’d say, Oh, that’s sort of a cool bike maybe. But for the person that truly appreciates a handmade motorcycle and they spend some time looking at things, they’re going to be well rewarded with that because they see what went into it.
00:12:36:04 – 00:12:55:00
Eric Gorges
You know, and and the most of the clients I’m working for now, they that’s what they want. They like that, you know and and I love getting calls from from clients six eight months a year later and they’re like, dude, I just saw how you did this. And you know something? They didn’t catch it. It took them that long to find it.
00:12:55:00 – 00:13:04:04
Eric Gorges
But, you know, I was watching the bike and I saw this man. I can’t believe you did that. You know what it’s like. That’s what it’s all about. That’s the funnest part for me. You know, so little.
00:13:04:04 – 00:13:14:06
Brian Benham
Easter eggs and things that they just discover as you’re as you’re going now, Do you ever get to see your bikes years down the road to see how the design ages?
00:13:14:16 – 00:13:15:01
Greg Porter
Oh, yeah.
00:13:15:01 – 00:13:41:13
Eric Gorges
Yeah, yeah. Some of our clients like some are in I’m in Detroit, you know, there’s a number of our bikes in this area and in Michigan and then there’s bikes all over the place. And some of them they shipped back for regular maintenance work and stuff like that. So I get to see the bikes over time and, you know, the shop doesn’t we don’t do maintenance and stuff like that for for people anymore, really.
00:13:41:23 – 00:13:45:13
Eric Gorges
But we handle our own bikes. And you know what we’ve built.
00:13:45:21 – 00:13:57:07
Brian Benham
So, so a client that ah, just a stranger came into the shop that had a bike built by somebody else. You don’t do the maintenance but you maintain your if I was a client and I bought a bike from you, you would make maintenance as.
00:13:57:09 – 00:13:59:17
Eric Gorges
We take care of it. Yeah, yeah, we take care of it for you.
00:13:59:18 – 00:14:14:10
Brian Benham
So. So what I really kind of curious about because I, I design a fair amount of things that go out in the world, and then when I a client may call me to build another thing, it’s I go to their house and I see the thing that I built and sometimes I’m like, Oh, that’s really cool. It looks awesome.
00:14:14:10 – 00:14:26:04
Brian Benham
Still. And there’s other times I’m like, Man, what was I thinking? Why is that at such a weird angle? Do you ever have those kind of things? When you look at the bike and you’re like, Oh, that’s cool. Ah, that that didn’t work out too well.
00:14:26:04 – 00:15:00:16
Eric Gorges
Or it’s usually how I went about doing it right. Like if I see a bike that I did ten or 15 years ago or something like that, and I’ll see how I did it and I’ll be like, Oh wow, I remember what I was doing, things like that. And so it’s it’s not as much of a design question as it is how I went about it, you know, and that goes back to bringing more complexity into the design or the element that I’m working on.
00:15:00:16 – 00:15:09:23
Eric Gorges
You know, I can make any simple element be incredibly complex and take forever to build.
00:15:09:23 – 00:15:27:22
Brian Benham
And I think I can relate to that. There are times where I, I designed a desk that had these little copper inserts and there was a whole bunch of them on all sides of this thing. And by the time I got to the last inset that I had to hand into this desk, I was like, I’m never designing a desk like that again.
00:15:27:22 – 00:15:30:04
Brian Benham
That was that was so much work to do. All that.
00:15:30:04 – 00:15:31:02
Greg Porter
Yeah, but, you.
00:15:31:02 – 00:15:54:01
Eric Gorges
Know, I’m drawn to that. I enjoy doing that. I enjoy the challenge of it and I enjoy the rewards of it when it’s done. And like, you know, like I was saying, you know, like I’ve a lot of our bikes will be rigid frame so there’s no suspension in the frame and we’ll do spring seats on it, which I find very comfortable.
00:15:54:05 – 00:16:12:24
Eric Gorges
But on the span, you know a lot of times I’ll spend tons of time detailing the bottom of the seat and then, you know, 95% of the people never even see it, you know. But the minute you flip it over and you see, you know, 200 rivets on it and all these pillows and stuff like that done on it.
00:16:13:06 – 00:16:29:15
Eric Gorges
And, you know, it’s pretty cool, man, you know? Yeah. And I’ll send it to the to my leather guy and I’ll be like, Dude, I need this, you know, done up and and he’s like, I like that. You know who spends this much time on the bottom of the sea pan, you know?
00:16:29:15 – 00:16:39:17
Brian Benham
But yeah, I think a lot of craftsmen really get into the Zen of that kind of stuff that just like head downs in now and just kind of kind of go for it.
00:16:39:17 – 00:16:41:00
Eric Gorges
Yeah, it’s just fun.
00:16:41:00 – 00:17:10:16
Greg Porter
I heard you mentioned machining earlier, so how far down that rabbit hole do you go? One of my things has always been fasteners. Like, I’m just. Yeah, I’m fascinated with fasteners. Sounds kind of cheesy, but it’s like, man, you have to have the right fastener, whether it’s an oval head or a pan head or a flat head or a counter sock or a socket head or fill in the blank, I feel like I could go on for hours here.
00:17:11:01 – 00:17:31:17
Greg Porter
But from the machining end of things, when you get into custom things and you need a bolt, that’s not three quarters of an inch. It’s not 5/8, but it’s somewhere in the middle. And maybe we shave it. Maybe it’s got to be, you know, drop into a counter ball or something. So we got to shave that down. How far do you get with that stuff?
00:17:31:17 – 00:17:36:13
Greg Porter
How far do you let yourself go down that rabbit hole, I guess. Oh, we’ve made fasteners.
00:17:37:01 – 00:17:59:19
Eric Gorges
You know, hand up handmade fasteners for particular projects like that. So, yeah, you know, it’s like the special things about life, right? Is over the years, I put together to two shops that are very well equipped and we can make anything I want. So it’s really just a matter of like figuring out how we’re going to make it if we can’t find it.
00:18:00:02 – 00:18:23:01
Eric Gorges
And that’s, you know, it’s a good thing and a bad thing because sometimes it’s like, you know, we’re looking for something super simple and we can’t find it. We’ll just make it. Don’t worry about it, you know? But it eats up time making something super simple, you know, It’s like, you know, we really need a a t brass t eight inch and piece on it, you know, quarter inch or something like that.
00:18:23:01 – 00:18:38:19
Eric Gorges
And it’s like, yeah, I can’t find it Cool. These all look like crap. They just look mass produced. So we just make something, you know, and, but that’s the fun part of it too, you know, like there’s no, the only, the only limitation rule.
00:18:38:22 – 00:19:03:06
Greg Porter
Yeah, I guess I look at it like, you know, you look at guns, stocks and things of that nature where the guys get in there and do the check carrying and all of that. Oh yeah, you can, you can have a very simple smooth gun stock and it works just fine or you can have this kickass checkered thing that’s, you know, got fluidly or, you know, whatever you want to call it, you know, cool engraving and initials and three dimensional stuff.
00:19:03:06 – 00:19:22:21
Greg Porter
And it’s like, okay, you just made that gun stock cost 100 times what the gun itself would cost to just make. But it’s going to be one of a kind and it’s going to be the coolest damn gun that hangs on a wall, you know, of anybody I know. And I could totally see. I don’t I don’t build motorcycles that I’d never have.
00:19:23:04 – 00:19:28:20
Greg Porter
But I could totally see just be in this endless rabbit hole of just awesome stuff that you could put together.
00:19:28:20 – 00:19:43:13
Eric Gorges
It is. Yeah, it is. Totally. You know, But that’s, I don’t know. I didn’t start building bikes to make money, you know what I mean? Like, I did it for different reasons, so I don’t worry about it, man. I never worry about how much time something takes me. It’s when it’s done, it’s done. And when it’s ready, it’s ready.
00:19:43:15 – 00:19:45:09
Greg Porter
Know that’s awesome. But it’s a it’s.
00:19:45:09 – 00:19:47:05
Eric Gorges
Definitely a deep rabbit hole, my friend.
00:19:48:05 – 00:19:49:08
Greg Porter
Yeah, I could tell.
00:19:49:11 – 00:20:01:08
Brian Benham
All those little little pieces probably just add up to really to to the design language of the whole piece. Just the subtle little details that a lot of people don’t know, like the other piece of the seat. But as a whole, that really makes a pop.
00:20:01:11 – 00:20:22:18
Eric Gorges
I think so. You know, there was a period in time when, you know, you’d be I would be asked to be a judge at a bike show or something like that. And I always spent a lot of time on every bike looking at how things were mounted, you know, how things were done, because you can add paint and bondo and filler and everything else to just about anything and make it look really cool.
00:20:22:18 – 00:20:37:05
Eric Gorges
You know what I mean? But you pay attention to how people mount things. You pay attention to how how much time people spend on the smaller details. And it’s a better telltale of how much time they spend on the whole project, the whole build overall, you know.
00:20:37:14 – 00:20:59:04
Brian Benham
Yeah. So you’re talking about paying attention to where the battery goes and all that. When you’re designing a bike and you have like this vision in your head and you realize like, okay, I need to make it street legal. So I got to have certain sized tail lights or tail lights have to be in a certain place. Does that kind of stuff like limit your design or are you able to really just blend it all together?
00:20:59:10 – 00:21:22:07
Eric Gorges
Now you talk around most of that. You know what I mean? Like you can work around pretty much everything, just how you package it, really, how you look at it, right? Yeah. If, if you look at a turn signal to use your example. Right. So like if you were to look at a turn signal, it’s just been a turn signal, then you’re bound within that frame.
00:21:22:07 – 00:21:45:03
Eric Gorges
Right. That architecture of, of a turn signal. Right. But now if you look at it as what if it wasn’t a turn signal, but it functioned as a turn signal, right now. Now you have a much bigger box to explore and a much wider range of things to explore. And you’re not really confined by that idea. I don’t know if turn signals a good analogy or not, but maybe I didn’t make sense.
00:21:45:09 – 00:21:57:07
Brian Benham
No, I think it’s a perfect sense, like let’s say, or you’re trying to design a dragon that has to have a turn signal. So the turn signal could be like the Dragons II kind of a thing. And then you say.
00:21:57:09 – 00:21:57:16
Greg Porter
Yeah.
00:21:57:16 – 00:21:59:10
Brian Benham
Exactly. And all the way around it.
00:21:59:13 – 00:22:01:07
Greg Porter
Yeah. You know, if you if.
00:22:01:11 – 00:22:16:22
Eric Gorges
You look at everything, that’s the only thing it can be. Then you’re going to be bound within those limitations. But if you start looking at things like, well, you know what? If it could be something else and it just happened to also function as this as.
00:22:16:23 – 00:22:17:20
Brian Benham
A turn signal or, you.
00:22:17:20 – 00:22:43:07
Eric Gorges
Know, or whatever it is right then now you’re able to really do whatever you want, you know, and you can make it whatever you want. And I like to look at like older boats, older bikes, bicycles, automobiles, automobiles. And, you know, you look at the design in a lot of those pieces. You know, it was just it was such a different time for design and manufacturing.
00:22:43:07 – 00:23:06:20
Eric Gorges
And and there’s a lot of inspiration in that, you know what I mean? And then you look at like the simplest item on a boat, like, say, a cleat, like a rope cleat or aligned cleat or whatever you want to call it. And but if you look back in the thirties about, you know, and you look at how some of those were designed and developed, it was like, wow, like that is beautiful just by itself, right?
00:23:07:00 – 00:23:31:05
Eric Gorges
Yeah, it just happens to function as a cleat, you know? But there’s, you know, speed lines in it and the, you know, the flow of it and the overall balance of the piece is is there and and there. There’s a lot there. You know, like like I said earlier, it’s incredibly complicated, but simple in design, you know, simple to the I.
00:23:31:05 – 00:23:58:15
Greg Porter
It’s interesting, Eric, you talk about those pieces and parts like that. I had a conversation with a with a coworker of mine the other day about sort of the era between call it the late seventies and maybe into and late nineties, early 2000. So I feel like the world lost its design sense. Cars became very square, things became very boring.
00:23:58:15 – 00:24:19:14
Greg Porter
You know look at a look at a locomotive, you know, the art deco locomotives of the day. And then you know, you fast forward to the the trains that were built, the engines that were built in the seventies, and they just got this big box that was wrapped around a motor. It’s like how how little sheet metal and labor we put together to make this thing go.
00:24:19:14 – 00:24:45:00
Greg Porter
And cars were the same like, you know, look at a fender on a oh gosh, like a Caprice classic or something like that from the eighties. And it’s literally like one fold in a wheel arch opening and that’s it. Like if you were trying to replicate it, you could you could do it blindfolded pretty much. And what I’ve seen that’s been very interesting and it’s it’s down to those details, right?
00:24:45:00 – 00:25:04:06
Greg Porter
Like like the cleat on a boat and you know, do you put in lines and and you look at it seemed like it was somewhere in the seventies. Everything just got like, how quick can we make this how cheap everything became commoditized. And and it was that way in architecture. It’s that way in automobiles. Is that really an industrial design?
00:25:04:06 – 00:25:27:09
Greg Porter
Kind of all the way down the line, You know, some of the I suppose some of the bikes out of the seventies and eighties were all right. But it but it it really did. It became that, you know, how many how many frames can MF kick out and and when we fast forward to what I would call like the late nineties, early 2000s, all of a sudden there was this massive resurgence of craftsmanship.
00:25:27:09 – 00:26:02:03
Greg Porter
Hey, there’s somebody here with the design. I it’s going to look at this and make imagine what it could be. It’s not what is what’s the lowest common denominator, simplest, easiest, most straightforward, mass manufactured way to do this. But how can we make this thing elegant and how can we make it really cool again? And, you know, when I when I when I put you in perspective of when everything happened, you know, with your motorcycle building and then then the leaping off from there, you’re part of that group that started that wave and is still going now.
00:26:02:03 – 00:26:22:06
Greg Porter
I see it in the guitar, I’m in the guitars, I’m super into guitars. And and it was the same thing, you know, all of these sort of boring mass produced, everybody’s the same things happened. And then all of a sudden there was a resurgence. But on, on your end of things, how do you see that? How did you how did you fit in with that?
00:26:22:06 – 00:26:31:09
Greg Porter
Because you were kind of on the front end of that. As I as I recall, I think you were late nineties is when you started your your bike shop, right?
00:26:32:00 – 00:26:55:11
Eric Gorges
Yes, sir. I, I don’t know. You know, I grew up around woodworking and, and so the idea of working with your hands and the respect and what you gained from that was was was with me since I was a little boy when I had made a decision that I wanted to work with my hands for, that I didn’t.
00:26:55:14 – 00:27:15:19
Eric Gorges
I like I said earlier, you know, I didn’t do it to make money. I didn’t do it. I did it because it was a challenge and I could do whatever I wanted to do, right? Like, yeah. And that was really the big thing, you know, like, well, I wanted to learn how to become a metal shaper so that I could make whatever I want.
00:27:16:05 – 00:27:43:15
Eric Gorges
I didn’t have to buy somebody else’s fuel tank that they designed. And now I’m re-interpreted in their design. Their design is still there. I just reinterpreted it by axing the sides or, you know, shaving it or whatever you want to do. You know, their design is still there. I wanted to say I’m going to make it like this and this is how I’m going to make it, you know, and then be able to do that, execute on it.
00:27:44:01 – 00:28:20:05
Eric Gorges
So I don’t even know if I answered your question properly or not, man, but it doesn’t matter. So I wrote a book and we published a book in 99, and we did a lot of research before when we were writing the book, and that was one of the things we researched was this idea of design it, especially from items, you know, in the early 1900s and even before then, right, like, you know, you had a gentleman or a lady that was being paid to work at a factory, say, and and they were tasked with making this part.
00:28:20:08 – 00:28:52:17
Eric Gorges
They were being paid to be there. But it was almost like they had you know, they wanted to put their own stamp on it. They wanted to put themselves in that part. And that’s what it meant to them, you know? But hell, I don’t know men. But that’s that’s what I would like to believe, right? Like they even though they were only tasked to make a cleat great for for a boat and they knew it was going to be cast in brass, they still wanted to be able to put their personality, you know, into that piece, their soul into that piece.
00:28:52:17 – 00:29:12:15
Eric Gorges
And and that’s something, you know, the idea of being a craftsman for me has always been this iconic thing, right? It’s like it’s a it’s a goal to have somebody refer to you as a craftsman like that. You know, she’s a fine craftsman or he’s a fine Preston like that. That’s like an honor in my eyes, you know, to be considered that.
00:29:13:02 – 00:29:27:10
Eric Gorges
But in order to get to that stage, I think you need to be able to spend the time and put yourself into that piece and make sure that, you know, you’re a part of you is in that design in in how that was created.
00:29:27:17 – 00:29:53:01
Brian Benham
I think that’s a lot of what a lot of people’s struggles are these days, that everything is become such a corporation and the corporation has their standards that you have to follow. Like this is how you do it. You can’t deviate from the standard, so nobody feels like they have any ownership in their in their job. I worked as a salesman for a big box store selling, building materials for a little while, and it was a soul crushing job.
00:29:53:01 – 00:30:11:16
Brian Benham
You were not allowed to have any kind of creativity or do it. On where they had a script that you had to stick to when you were talking to the clients. And it was it was just soul crushing. And that was one of the things when that’s one of the things that pushed me over the edge to where I was like, I have to start my own business.
00:30:11:16 – 00:30:26:18
Brian Benham
And that’s what got me started in my own business, is that I was just like, I want to make my own thing and I want to have ownership over it and express myself. I think a lot of people say, Well, you get such bad service from some places just because that person just has no ownership in their in their job.
00:30:27:01 – 00:30:29:07
Brian Benham
Like like you can when you work with your hands.
00:30:29:07 – 00:30:30:04
Eric Gorges
I agree.
00:30:30:04 – 00:30:48:19
Greg Porter
With that. I grew up doing electric work with my dad. He is a journeyman electrician and one of my first days on the job. So I started working in commercial buildings, doing electric work at age 12, if you can believe that. So not even a teenager yet. And my dad kind of followed me around and checked all my work.
00:30:48:19 – 00:31:08:03
Greg Porter
And one of the first things that he taught me was that all the screws go straight on. And I was like, Well, yeah, that and that’s a waste of time. And he’s like, That’s the mark of a craftsman that let someone know that you cared when you stopped turning that screw. He’s like, It doesn’t matter. It’s not going to hold it together any better or anything else.
00:31:08:03 – 00:31:26:07
Greg Porter
He goes, But if you have that attention to detail, when you put the screws at 12:00, what attention to detail are you going to have on, you know, for the wires inside of that box, the conduit that’s hanging from the ceiling, all of the other things. And I really do in this sounds like the old man in me talking.
00:31:26:07 – 00:31:55:14
Greg Porter
But I feel like as a as a country, for sure, we’ve lost that. I think if you were down to the folks making bombers back in the day and you know, some of those technicians, I still think about it. My my wife’s grandfather, his job title was Sheet metal Sheet metal Technician for TWC and you know, he did he did sheet metal work on on the airplanes and took immense amount of pride in his work.
00:31:55:14 – 00:32:22:02
Greg Porter
And you know, to this day I’ve got a CWA toolbox in my garage and, you know, just the way things are set in that toolbox, there’s a whole story behind it. It’s it’s a different mentality. And like I say, that that was that group, the the World War two aged guys. And then there was this bizarre gap, like, we lost our minds, We forgot where we came from or or we lost it in a little bit.
00:32:22:17 – 00:32:49:11
Greg Porter
But, but I do think and, you know, sort of the pie eyed guy in me is like, I do think it’s coming back around. And I guess one of the things we’ve talked an awful lot about motorcycles, Eric, but you’ve got to show that there is about craftsmanship and as as you shared with me, you’re talking to people in the textile industry, in the glassblowing industry, probably in the carpentry arenas, welding, metalwork, all of those things.
00:32:49:11 – 00:33:00:17
Greg Porter
So you probably get to see it from all different angles. What are you seeing now that that maybe wasn’t here 20 years ago or as prominent 20 years ago?
00:33:00:20 – 00:33:33:15
Eric Gorges
You know, I think nowadays there’s there’s definitely more and more people that are interested in working with their hands, you know, whether it’s learning to forge metal or, you know, get into woodworking or, you know, pottery or glass or whatever. There’s more and more people that are interested in pursuing that, which I’m very happy for. You know, started sort of putting that show together in like 2010, 2012, somewhere around there.
00:33:34:02 – 00:33:56:21
Eric Gorges
And a lot of it stemmed from I receive a lot of letters, you know, handwritten letters from from from people all over the place or phone calls from people all over the place. And they they wanted to get into bike building or they wanted to learn how to become a bike builder. And if I had an opportunity to talk to them, I would always ask them, What are you what are you doing about that Now?
00:33:56:21 – 00:34:15:06
Eric Gorges
Most of the time the answer revolved around, I want to do this, but I can’t because of this, right? Or I really want to learn how to weld. But I don’t have a welder so I can learn. How can I learn how to well that well be like, well, have you read any books on welding or basic metallurgy at all?
00:34:15:10 – 00:34:34:11
Eric Gorges
At least to start familiarizing yourself with what’s going on behind the practice and then maybe look at a community college or you go to a local welding store. There’s almost always somebody there that you know you can pay to help you out. You know what I mean? Like, there’s a lot of ways around these problems, man. These are not big problems.
00:34:34:11 – 00:34:59:21
Eric Gorges
They’re big problems for you because you’re making them big problems. But if you take a couple steps back and get out of that forest a little bit and now you start seeing it and you’re like, all right, all right. You know, and that was really one of the principles for developing the show, was that, you know, I wanted to be able to show people that there there’s craftsmen all over the place.
00:35:00:02 – 00:35:25:05
Eric Gorges
There’s men and women all over the place that make a fine living working with their hands. And sometimes what they’re doing takes a very long time just to make one right. But they invested that time to learn how to do it, and they’re constantly trying to become better at what they’re doing, you know, And then they give back to the idea of that skill set, which which I also think is important right?
00:35:25:05 – 00:35:48:15
Eric Gorges
As a craftsman, you’re borrowing the information, right? It your challenge to add to that and then give it away as fast as you can when you’re at that stage that you can give it away. Right. But you should always be giving that knowledge away, man. It’s not yours to begin with. You know what I mean? And and so those are those are really important principles for me.
00:35:49:21 – 00:36:09:12
Eric Gorges
And I see more and more people do that, you know what I mean? Which is really cool because I’ve met a lot of who, you know, like we do a bike show or something and I, you know, we bring a small English wheel with us or something and I, I do some shaving there or something and, and it was really cool because, you know, a lot of people would come up and they’d to they’d ask questions, what’s that?
00:36:09:12 – 00:36:30:09
Eric Gorges
What’s going on? And, you know, it was maybe when wheels weren’t as common as they are today or common knowledge, I should say, as they are today, you know, some people would be like, Dude, what are you doing? You can’t do that with do you know what you should charge for that? We charge for a white van. Like we’re just having fun, you know, Calm down.
00:36:30:17 – 00:36:31:09
Eric Gorges
Don’t worry about it.
00:36:31:16 – 00:36:32:07
Brian Benham
Yeah, there’s a.
00:36:32:07 – 00:36:34:06
Eric Gorges
Lot of mac and cheese.
00:36:34:06 – 00:37:03:11
Brian Benham
Yeah, there’s a lot of fun in that. A few years ago, art gallery that I was involved in, every Friday, they had, like, an art walk in and the gallery owner says, Hey, why don’t you come and demonstrate some kind of a woodworking thing with hand tools? And I was like, okay. So I decided to demonstrate in laying a bow ties just by hand was just, you know, no power tools, just be a chisel and a chunk of wood and some bow ties and just sat.
00:37:03:11 – 00:37:22:24
Brian Benham
And the outside in front of the the building just sitting on some sawhorses and laying some bow ties. And this little girl walks up and she’s like, hey, can I try? And I was like, Absolutely. And so she did a really good job, like just giving her some the things like her mom was like a total basket case.
00:37:22:24 – 00:37:39:08
Brian Benham
So be careful. Those are sharp and don’t hurt yourself. And I was like, Come on, Karen, it’ll be fine. Everybody needs their first stitches somehow. That. Yeah, but yeah, so yeah, getting over that fear and just having someone show you and that’s, that’s into it. It’s just a lot of fun. Well.
00:37:39:15 – 00:38:02:07
Greg Porter
I learned it a long, long time ago, so, gosh, when I came out of school, I was doing computer renderings and it was like the first group of people that had that knowledge. You know, I was literally the first version of the software. And everybody I had a rule that if anybody asked me how to do it, I would tell them anything they wanted to know.
00:38:02:16 – 00:38:23:11
Greg Porter
And there were a group of people who were like, Well, we’ll keep this a secret. There’s only a few of us who know how to do it. It was sort of that self-preservation. And I shared with somebody time. I said, Here’s the thing, and it’s this way, whether it’s computer stuff, whether it’s metalworking, welding, carpentry, painting, you name it, If somebody wants to know how to do it, they’re going to know how to do it.
00:38:23:11 – 00:38:41:05
Greg Porter
Whether you share, share it with them or whether somebody else does, they’re going to figure it out because they have a passion and they have a drive. They’re going to find out. So there’s no reason to hold back, let it rip, share everything that you want to know with them. And there’s a pretty good chance they’ll share something back that you didn’t know.
00:38:41:05 – 00:38:58:11
Greg Porter
And but it is just interesting to see. And I found that when I started doing body work, it was the same thing. I, I went to a body shop like, Hey man, I got some dents in my car. I want to learn how to fix them. Is there somebody I could talk to that can just help me understand the process?
00:38:58:11 – 00:39:15:09
Greg Porter
This is before YouTube and all that other stuff back in the late eighties, early nineties. And you know, you either had to buy a book which Barnes and Noble didn’t really exist at that point, or you had to find somebody you knew how to do it. I can remember just getting completely turned away at a body shop like everything in here’s a secret.
00:39:15:09 – 00:39:42:21
Greg Porter
You can’t see what we’re doing. And it it turned me off of of body work. And I finally found some single guy who ran a one man shop. And I can still tell you it was a Kirby. Perfect. Kirby Wilson. There we go. Wilson Auto Body, Kirby Wilson. And he just ran a one man show, did a lot of car flipping in his spare time when he didn’t have Rex to work on that customers brought in and and I took my car down there and I said I gave it a shot.
00:39:43:04 – 00:39:59:15
Greg Porter
You know, I worked the middle out. I put some body filler on there. He’s like, okay, we got to work on this a little bit. And he gave me some pointers of what did I do wrong and how could I do it better next time? And then I gave him the car for a week. He did, you know, some sanding and some other things to kind of get it in shape.
00:39:59:15 – 00:40:16:16
Greg Porter
And he’s like, there’s what it needs to look like. So the next one that you do, there’s your example of how to make it look before. That’s how it has to look like before Paint. And it was you didn’t have to do that completely eye opening in it. It just to your point, I went to the community college.
00:40:16:20 – 00:40:39:09
Greg Porter
I took an adult education and body shop class where you could bring in your own stuff, brought in doors and hoods off of cars that were, you know, out of the junkyard. And I learned how to metalwork and, you know, the balls. I pick all the stuff that, you know, those little secrets that nobody wants to show you how to do or and so to to your point, it’s incredibly important to pass that on.
00:40:39:16 – 00:40:51:24
Greg Porter
Kirby Wilson affected my life in a very positive way from from that day forward, I was doing all kinds of metal work and paint prep and everything else. And I would tell you at this point in my life, I’m I’m pretty good at it.
00:40:53:01 – 00:40:53:23
Eric Gorges
So it’s cool, man.
00:40:53:24 – 00:40:54:24
Greg Porter
Makes a huge difference.
00:40:55:06 – 00:41:11:05
Eric Gorges
Yeah. And and, you know, I don’t know, man. You know, at the end of the day, you know, we’re we’re here to help each other, right? And to enjoy life and to enjoy the journey. Right. And to better other people’s lives. And, you know, you’re not going to do that being an asshole.
00:41:12:23 – 00:41:42:18
Brian Benham
So you and I kind of took a little bit different paths. I my first was in a metalworking shop, and then I got really deep into woodworking. And then now I’m kind of trying to combine metalworking and woodworking in my in my art. And you said I mentioned I didn’t know this about you until you just said that, that you started in woodworking when you’re young and then went into And now when I watch your YouTube channel, you’re getting back into woodworking.
00:41:42:18 – 00:41:49:05
Brian Benham
So I’m curious like, how are you finding that those two relate to each other? Are you finding a lot of skills transferable?
00:41:49:09 – 00:42:19:03
Eric Gorges
Oh, 100%, yeah. You know, yeah. So I grew up around woodworking. My granddad was a was a master cabinetmaker. And my my dad was was what you’d consider a serious hobbyist, you know. And I grew up around that and I always enjoyed it. Right. And then when I decided I was going to work with my hands and make things for a living, I was really torn between woodworking and metal.
00:42:19:11 – 00:42:41:20
Eric Gorges
Neither wanted to, like, really dive deep and get into furniture making and cabinetry work and go down that road or, you know, go down the metal road and and eventually, you know, start a business building motorcycles. And and honestly, the reason I chose metal work was because I didn’t know anything about it, you know? But I loved to talk, you know, at work.
00:42:41:20 – 00:43:01:21
Eric Gorges
I didn’t know much about it at the time, but I was really intrigued by it and working with hot metal and things like that and then that’s how it went. And, and, and, you know, 20 some years ago, I always told myself I was like, one day I’m going to get back into woodworking and really increase my skill set there.
00:43:01:21 – 00:43:34:08
Eric Gorges
And then probably about six years ago now, I started doing that and started buying some, you know, woodworking equipment and then built out of woodshop. And and it’s been great. I’ve been loving it because I love the metal shop. I love working there. But it’s a totally different vibe than woodshop. You know, my woodshop is like nice and warm and it’s got a cool smell in the air, you know, And it’s all these hand tools and, you know, different power tools and things like that.
00:43:34:08 – 00:44:03:02
Eric Gorges
And and it’s all so challenging, you know what I mean? And challenging in a different way. Like the metal shop is a way colder in there and big ceilings and it’s loud and you know, and Nuttall’s cold to the touch and you know, it’s just totally different, you know. But the skill set right, a lot of times I’ll build something that people will see and they’re like, Well, did you build that for a plan or where did you get the plans for like, why would I build it from plants?
00:44:03:02 – 00:44:10:14
Eric Gorges
I just threw it up, you know, like, but I have that knowledge from all my time work and then laying out doing layouts and metal.
00:44:10:14 – 00:44:11:08
Brian Benham
Yeah, that’s.
00:44:12:07 – 00:44:41:19
Eric Gorges
You know, and so all those skill sets and the hand-eye coordination and the dexterity of your hands and, you know, knowing how to use tool properly, how to hold the tool properly, that’s one thing that I think a lot of people today that are starting out and they’re they’re, you know, woodworking or whatever, they don’t take the time to understand how to hold to a tool properly or to understand exactly what their tools do.
00:44:41:19 – 00:45:05:04
Eric Gorges
You know, like I’ll post a short video of doing a using a router and, you know, a feed cut on it and people will blow up, you know, just telling me I don’t know what I’m doing, blah, blah, blah, you’re doing it wrong. You can hurt yourself. And it’s like, Dude, I understand what you’re saying, right? Cutting with the feed is, is, is definitely very challenging.
00:45:05:11 – 00:45:41:11
Eric Gorges
And it’s it’s looked down upon in a lot of situations, especially hand. But if you understand what it is you’re trying to accomplish and you understand the tool that you’re using and you understand the cutter and how the cutter works and you’re able to work with that, you’ll get a much finer cut and sometimes it’s okay. But if you go into it just blind because you’ve read from five other people that have told you how dangerous it is and you don’t really understand what it is that tool is doing to begin with, then yeah, I can understand your point, you know, But you know what I’m saying?
00:45:41:12 – 00:46:02:13
Brian Benham
Yeah, I could go on a on a three day rant about people telling me I’m doing it wrong because they watched so-and-so from so-and-so do it. And they said that, that you shouldn’t do that because it’s dangerous. But sometimes it’s not as dangerous as you think it is if you have the experience behind it and you know what’s you know what to expect.
00:46:02:15 – 00:46:03:16
Greg Porter
Yeah. And I never.
00:46:03:16 – 00:46:22:11
Eric Gorges
You know, I’m never a jerk about it. Like, I’m always like, you know, thanks for looking out for me, man. I appreciate it. You know, like, I get it, you know? But I just wish that. I don’t know, man. I like to dive in all the way, you know, when I want to learn how to do something, I want to learn how to do it very well.
00:46:22:11 – 00:46:30:24
Eric Gorges
And I don’t let anything get in my way. Yeah, it’s. I want to know everything about it. And. And. And that’s what I constantly strive for, you know what I mean?
00:46:30:24 – 00:47:00:00
Brian Benham
So it’s kind of funny. It’s all about perspective and experience. Like you. A few minutes ago, you said something along the lines that woodworking is so much more challenging than metal working and me being a woodworker, wanting to learn more about metalworking. I find metalworking a lot more challenging than woodworking are the products I’m working on now. I’m I have this big round desk that I make out of metal that I’m going to put some patina colors on it.
00:47:00:07 – 00:47:01:20
Eric Gorges
I got the design.
00:47:02:02 – 00:47:19:17
Brian Benham
Thank you. Yeah. And then inlay it into this table thing and to cut the the circle out of wood that it’s going to get inlaid into is super easy. I just, you know set up my router like I’ve done 100 times cut the circle and off I go and then metalworking. I’m like, okay, how am I going to cut this out of metal?
00:47:19:17 – 00:47:40:23
Brian Benham
I don’t really have a whole ton of metalworking tools in my shop. And then there’s sawdust everywhere. So I don’t want to make make sparks. So then I went outside and it was snowing. So I live in Colorado, so it’s snowing outside and it’s freezing cold and I just like my only really tool that I had to make a circle was a grinder.
00:47:40:23 – 00:47:54:10
Brian Benham
So I angle grinder. So I cut it out with the angle grinder and then tried to ease the edges because of course now it’s not like this perfect cut that the, that the wood that it needs to match to is and so it was like this whole thing.
00:47:55:00 – 00:47:57:00
Eric Gorges
So we’re using a cut up wheel on that grinder.
00:47:57:06 – 00:48:06:01
Brian Benham
Yeah yeah it is probably the wrong cut up wheel. It was whatever I just had in the shop, you know, But it made sparks and it cut it.
00:48:06:01 – 00:48:23:05
Eric Gorges
You know, the friction wheels are, are great, you know, in cutting an arc or cutting the circle or cutting, you know, around with a friction wheels is, is tricky. It takes a light hand to do that. So good for you, man. Yeah.
00:48:23:06 – 00:48:28:24
Brian Benham
Because it kicked when I went through was like who like, well, okay, pay attention.
00:48:28:24 – 00:48:30:14
Eric Gorges
You got to sneak up on it, man. Yeah.
00:48:30:17 – 00:48:37:18
Greg Porter
You hope that your metals that are heavy enough gauge that it doesn’t just fold and wrinkle right around your tool. Yeah, well.
00:48:37:22 – 00:48:46:20
Brian Benham
Yeah, this was probably eighth inch. I’m probably embarrassing myself because I don’t know what actual gauges are, but it’s about an eight inch thick is what I was using.
00:48:47:07 – 00:48:51:14
Eric Gorges
Yeah, it’s about ten gauge, depending on what material it is.
00:48:51:14 – 00:48:54:19
Brian Benham
But yeah, it was Miles Weld Steel. Yeah, but.
00:48:55:03 – 00:48:55:23
Greg Porter
Brian but you.
00:48:55:23 – 00:48:56:04
Eric Gorges
Know.
00:48:56:21 – 00:49:02:09
Greg Porter
You know where I live, buddy. You can come up and use the plasma cutter. Anything else you use, we do it.
00:49:02:17 – 00:49:09:08
Brian Benham
4040 minute drive to save myself some stitches. Yeah, that might have been a better way, but I’m still. I’m still good, so.
00:49:09:15 – 00:49:10:02
Greg Porter
Okay.
00:49:10:03 – 00:49:10:17
Brian Benham
Worked out.
00:49:11:01 – 00:49:30:10
Greg Porter
I want to. I want to share one thing that I think is interesting. I think it’s I think it’s a common thread. And when I when I put myself in the position of the listeners who listen to this podcast, I think there’s there’s a lot of people who are already makers that are listening to to expand what it is they do.
00:49:30:22 – 00:49:55:14
Greg Porter
Then there’s probably a group of folks that listen that Eric are like the folks you described earlier. How do I get into X, Y and Z and the thing that I would share about people who are successful making things of any sort, I don’t care what it is. It’s exactly what Eric said earlier is you jump in with both feet and you just get it done, whatever it is.
00:49:55:23 – 00:50:23:09
Greg Porter
And it’s it’s the type of thing where you don’t need $1,000,000 worth of tools in Brian’s example, to cut an eight inch arc out of a piece of steel, an angle grinder will do that entire job. You can cut it out rough, you can put on a smoothing disk, you can, you know, for for $30 at the tool store, you can get an angle grinder in three or four different blades and figure out what’s going to work for you.
00:50:23:09 – 00:50:58:15
Greg Porter
It all comes down to the pattern that you want and being picky enough. You can do it with hand files if you want to, and a hacksaw. When I started doing metal work, those were the tools I had and I cut all of my tubing by hand. It took hours and I got really powerful forearms. But, you know, when I had an idea in my head and I would share this with everybody else, when you have an idea in your head that you want to see built, stop at nothing to get it done, don’t be afraid to throw five of them in the trash to get the good one that you want, because once you
00:50:58:15 – 00:51:04:03
Greg Porter
get that good one, it’s printed so deep in your brain that you’ll never forget how to get there.
00:51:04:20 – 00:51:05:16
Eric Gorges
So I said.
00:51:06:05 – 00:51:07:18
Greg Porter
I got a little passionate there, but.
00:51:08:04 – 00:51:32:04
Brian Benham
Sorry is so sad. Is shift shift gears a little bit. I did go back to the Craftsman legacy and the this one is more for a question that my dad would be like, Why didn’t you ask him? Because he always, always told me when I was growing up like, Oh, you should get a TV show like Norm, because I was like, I was into woodworking and me and my dad would watch this old house and Norm together all the time.
00:51:32:18 – 00:51:37:18
Brian Benham
So how, how did you fall into the TV show of getting on on PBS.
00:51:38:13 – 00:51:39:04
Eric Gorges
Like.
00:51:39:04 – 00:51:44:04
Brian Benham
How does the world of PBS television work? I guess is my more direct question.
00:51:44:07 – 00:51:45:23
Eric Gorges
That’s a whole other podcast, man.
00:51:47:13 – 00:51:49:23
Brian Benham
That’s like maybe a can of worms I shouldn’t opened.
00:51:50:04 – 00:52:10:03
Eric Gorges
That’s a whole other podcast. But you know, I had an idea for a TV show and I knew a couple people in that business, like from doing past television shows with the motorcycle shop and stuff. So I knew some producers and directors and stuff and I talked to a couple of them and, you know, that didn’t really go anywhere.
00:52:10:03 – 00:52:36:02
Eric Gorges
And, you know, I knew what I wanted to do and I just went for it. I figured it out as I went along and I had, you know, walking through life alone is is really difficult and not necessary. And I made a lot of friends and I had a lot of mentors that helped me get that show off the ground and get it going because they believed in the show.
00:52:36:02 – 00:53:03:23
Eric Gorges
They believed in me and, they wanted to help me. And and that’s how it went, man. It took me years. You know, like I said, you know, the first early, very early development. So that show are probably like 2010, 2012 where I’ve got outlines and like, you know, the basic outline of the show and how it was going to follow and, you know, timestamps on it and stuff like that because I really thought that it would be a great show and and there’s so many great stories to be told.
00:53:03:23 – 00:53:30:24
Eric Gorges
And and and so my life lessons to be learned, you know, and and it was important to me, you know, one of the biggest, most in my opinion, valuable parts of that show was what we called the apprenticeship. And it’s where I spent time with that person, trying to learn from them how they do what they do. The whole point of that was to show people somebody sitting there watching who really would like to learn how to do something, but they keep throwing these roadblocks in their way.
00:53:31:04 – 00:54:03:19
Eric Gorges
What’s to show them that, Dude, I don’t know anything about this, but you got to try it and and you’re going to fail and you’re going to make mistakes and you’re going to screw up, but you’re going to learn. And if you keep at it, you’re going to get good at it, you know, And and that’s that was really what it was about, you know, And it took a long time, you know, like four years or something for us to get it to finally get to airing season one, you know, like, you know, I’d work on it and then I’d hit it, hit a dead end, and I’d get frustrated, you know, And then it
00:54:03:19 – 00:54:16:14
Eric Gorges
would sit there for a couple of months and then I’d pick it back up again and I’d find a lead here, and I’d go down there and get it dead end. Or I can tell you how many people told me I couldn’t host it. You know, a lot of people did. You can’t be hosts of a national television show.
00:54:16:15 – 00:54:28:17
Eric Gorges
I’d be like, Well, how come I just don’t have it? What’s that? What do I not have? Because I think I can learn it. I’m pretty good at learning things, you know? You just don’t have it. Okay, well, I don’t want to work with you. Yeah.
00:54:29:04 – 00:54:49:20
Brian Benham
Yeah, that’s. Yeah, that’s very relatable. Especially like on this podcast. Like, I didn’t either myself or Greg ever did a podcast. And I’m, I’m an extreme introvert. And so I was like, I, I had this idea I wanted to do a podcast. So I could talk to cool people, like you would just meet people like, I work all by myself in my shop all day long.
00:54:50:03 – 00:55:05:10
Brian Benham
I, I, you know, it’s gets a little lonely. It’s like. But I’m an extreme introvert, so this is like a terrifying thing. Every time, every week I’m like, I wait for great Greg to call me up and says, You know what? I don’t want to do this anymore. And I’ll be like, Thank you, Because I guess I didn’t do it.
00:55:05:24 – 00:55:31:00
Brian Benham
But then then we get going. We hit record. It’s always it’s a little bumpy start to get good. The conversation going is super awkward and then the conversation gets going. That’s fine and then it’s have fun and we have a good time. And then in the podcast Mic, Right. Well, I’ll do that again next time. So yeah, it’s just like this whole thing of just trying to get going and Yeah, yeah, I don’t know how much more I want to share about my personal fears of public speaking, but yeah.
00:55:31:01 – 00:55:50:16
Eric Gorges
Oh no, no thing. You know what? So a lot of times you would visit people who, you know, they were very introverted and they, they worked alone most of the time. And they, you know, we’d have like 11 people on our crew show up and you’ve got cameras all over the place. You got lots place, you got people on the walkie talkie thing and all that other stuff going on.
00:55:51:00 – 00:56:14:13
Eric Gorges
And and then we’d start the interview process with them and, and I could tell that they’re uncomfortable and nervous and, and but I would always just talk to them and just. Just chill, you know, and get them. And you start talking about what you love and what you know, you know what you want to learn or what you have learned and talk about, you know, their story and their journey.
00:56:14:23 – 00:56:36:09
Eric Gorges
And then people warm up, you know, and and then it’s just two friends talking, you know, And we would cycle back and I would re-ask every single question that I asked them when they were nervous. I would I would filter and sprinkle those back in. Later in the interview when we would get clean edits on them, and then we would take those better cuts and use them in the front.
00:56:36:10 – 00:56:49:01
Brian Benham
Yeah, I could I could tell on some episodes that some people might have been a little bit nervous, but when you would ask them, okay, well show me how you do it. And that’s the thing that they do every day. And so then they just like, okay, and they just go into their zone and just do their thing.
00:56:49:02 – 00:56:59:03
Eric Gorges
Yeah, Yeah. You know, And I don’t like I said before, man, like, you know, deep down inside, you know, most people want to help other people, you know, And yeah.
00:56:59:10 – 00:57:20:13
Brian Benham
Especially in the, the world of, of makers, the people that are really passionate about making things, they love to share what they do. Like one of my friends, he stops by the shop and he’ll ask me his has a desk job. So he’s working with his hands like this foreign thing. And so every time he comes by he asked me questions and he’s like, like, I’m sorry I took up so much of your time.
00:57:20:13 – 00:57:43:02
Brian Benham
And it’s like, Nah, it’s cool. I love showing what I what I know and how to do. Along those lines, you have interviewed people from all different kinds of of crafts, leather, working, metalworking, blacksmithing. So you’ve been able to talk to all these people and try out their craft and and have them show you some tips and tricks that they do.
00:57:43:20 – 00:57:55:07
Brian Benham
If you were to close up voodoo choppers and they close up your woodshop, is there a particular craft that you’d be like, Yes, that’s that’s the next handcrafted thing. I’m going to try ceramics.
00:57:55:08 – 00:58:19:23
Eric Gorges
Ceramics that Yeah, yeah. If I, if I, if I wasn’t going to work in wood any longer and I wasn’t going to work in metal any longer, I would go towards cement. I really enjoyed that. That in that episode was really a very powerful episode for me personally, because my mom had just passed. We had my mom was sick for a while and this was a number of years ago.
00:58:19:23 – 00:58:39:21
Eric Gorges
My mom was sick for a while and I was really close with my mom. And we had I was, you know, we were on the road filming and then we came back and we had to postpone because my was wasn’t doing well. And mom passed. And then I left a day or two later and we were on the road filming again because we had to maintain a schedule.
00:58:39:21 – 00:59:04:06
Eric Gorges
And David was the first episode we did after after that happened to me. And so my head wasn’t really right, you know, like I had a lot on my mind and, and not a lot of people knew, like the crew knew what was going on with me, but not too many other people really knew. And I think they told David, too, because I think his I think we had a rescheduling around that.
00:59:04:06 – 00:59:36:00
Eric Gorges
So but it was like, you know, I truly got lost in that world. And it was very therapeutic for me in many ways. You know, I became like really good friends with them, you know, But, you know, he’s a good friend, you know what I mean? I don’t talk to super off or anything like that, but it was just one of those people you connect with, you know, and when when my scenes were shut down for the day, you know, or if I wasn’t in a particular take or something like that, man, I was I was off on the side on.
00:59:36:00 – 00:59:44:16
Eric Gorges
We’ll get set up a little way off camera for me. And I was I don’t know how many balls I made that day or two days. We were there three days or whatever. Yeah, yeah.
00:59:44:23 – 01:00:02:12
Brian Benham
We’ll see. That’s very meditative to one of my friends. I do an art show with occasionally as a ceramic artist and just to watch and just it’s so effortlessly just to to pull up the side of the ball. And he’s, he’s like, Show me. I said, Do this. And this is like, Oh my God, it’s so beautiful. And then he just likes taking the angles.
01:00:02:12 – 01:00:21:10
Brian Benham
Crash and just smashed the pieces. Like, I may I’ll just make another one that’s called, you know, like just whatever. Yeah. So yeah, I think glassblowing would be my thing that I would go into because it has like a little bit of everything that I really like. There’s a lot of chemistry involved. So so I’m kind of into that kind of thing.
01:00:21:10 – 01:00:29:14
Brian Benham
And then there’s a lot of technical knowledge to know, like a lot of techniques to make all the little braids and things, but then it also has a lot of sculpture flowing.
01:00:29:14 – 01:00:30:17
Eric Gorges
Yeah, well.
01:00:31:01 – 01:00:31:12
Brian Benham
Yeah.
01:00:31:19 – 01:00:50:18
Eric Gorges
Yeah. Glassblowing is, is, is definitely hard. It’s really tricky, but it’s fun. It’s it’s like you said, there’s a lot of science in there. You know, you were working with heat timing and heat cycles and stuff like that. That’s always really cool. Yeah, it’s. It reminds me of working a lot, you know? Yeah. From that regard.
01:00:50:20 – 01:00:56:04
Brian Benham
All right, Greg, what what are your. What do you think? And if you couldn’t do metalworking anymore.
01:00:56:07 – 01:01:17:08
Greg Porter
Oh, my God, I can’t pick. That’s why I do them all. I mean, you just. Come on. You’ve been in my shop before. I’ve got a little area to do. Just about everything. And you know, from. Yeah, from from the metalworking side, there’s. I’ve done furniture that involves not as blowing, but. But doing, you know, glass pieces and furniture.
01:01:17:08 – 01:01:43:03
Greg Porter
And. And I think to me, the most interesting thing over time has been, you know, some artists would it mixed media but putting it together when you have some vision in your head putting together the right pieces for that vision and being able to do it, I mean, back again to your point, Eric, at one point when I was restoring my car, I was like, I want these seat covered.
01:01:43:03 – 01:01:59:04
Greg Porter
I’ll call them seat covers. But the seats I want the upholstery to be this way with this fabric, with this welding on it, with this stitch folded in this way and done this way. And I couldn’t get anybody to do it, you know, because it’s like, well, no, we have a pattern here that we do for these seats.
01:01:59:13 – 01:02:15:06
Greg Porter
It’s like, Yeah, but I don’t want that. I want this. So I bought a sewing machine, taught myself how to sew and did all the upholstery for that car. It’s like there’s a point at which you just there’s no other way to get it done than to take it into your hands and learn. So I can’t pick. There’s.
01:02:15:06 – 01:02:36:11
Greg Porter
There’s no way I could possibly pick what I would want to do next. I would say I have not done any forging and I find that, that and glassblowing are fascinating from the from the perspective that it’s a timed event as as the metal starts to cool, you can do certain things and you can’t do others in glassblowing.
01:02:36:11 – 01:02:57:21
Greg Porter
I feel like it’s a much more fragile egg in that if you miss your window, you miss your window. You can try and reheat it. But if you’ve added color to the glass or done something else, it’s going to start melting on you. And yeah, I’m this awful cake batter that you can’t deal with. I have I have the utmost respect for people in the glass studio.
01:02:57:21 – 01:02:59:16
Greg Porter
That is just a fascinating art.
01:02:59:22 – 01:03:05:16
Eric Gorges
Yeah, for sure. And it’s, it’s, it’s a very magical experience that we heard earlier.
01:03:05:16 – 01:03:23:23
Brian Benham
You mentioned you wrote a book, and I have one of your books, The Craftsman Legacy Book. And even threw a year out there. And I wasn’t certain if the year was referencing another book you wrote back in 99 or if something happened in the book that was that happened in 99. Do you have two books?
01:03:24:06 – 01:03:30:17
Eric Gorges
No, just the one book. I don’t know. I might have made a mistake when the book came out. 1920 19.
01:03:31:00 – 01:03:32:10
Brian Benham
Oh 2019.
01:03:32:10 – 01:03:39:23
Eric Gorges
I might have made a mistake. We’ve talked about doing another book, and I don’t know. I know. I don’t know.
01:03:40:17 – 01:03:45:24
Brian Benham
Maybe it’s a lot of a lot of work to sit down and write.
01:03:46:15 – 01:03:47:22
Greg Porter
It took a couple of years.
01:03:47:22 – 01:03:58:03
Eric Gorges
I think it was two years I worked with the ghostwriter because I don’t necessarily enjoy writing myself. You know, I talked with talk and, you know.
01:03:58:12 – 01:04:08:13
Brian Benham
Right. Well, sometimes that’s part of the best thing. Like especially when you get like a I can’t think of the proper name for what it is today, but like a book on tape, what is like an audiobook.
01:04:08:16 – 01:04:09:00
Greg Porter
Audiobook.
01:04:09:12 – 01:04:14:01
Brian Benham
And it’s read by the author. I feel like I just stated myself at the book on tape.
01:04:14:16 – 01:04:17:18
Eric Gorges
But that was a lot about.
01:04:18:09 – 01:04:38:06
Brian Benham
Way back there. Yeah, like you, but like the audio book, like when the author reads it like that’s, those are the best ones to listen to when it’s read by the author because you really get to hear, like their voice and in their story. And you can tell like when it’s a part of the book that they’re really passionate about, that they’re that their intensity in their voice changes.
01:04:38:06 – 01:04:39:07
Greg Porter
But I.
01:04:39:07 – 01:04:41:01
Eric Gorges
I read mine, I narrated my book.
01:04:41:06 – 01:04:42:18
Brian Benham
Is there an audio version?
01:04:42:18 – 01:04:53:24
Eric Gorges
Yeah, Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the book came out was published by Algonquin Press and then the audio book was Tanter picked up the licensing for the audio book.
01:04:54:00 – 01:04:57:19
Brian Benham
I’m going to have to get the audio version because I have hours in the shop.
01:04:58:09 – 01:04:59:04
Eric Gorges
Oh, yeah.
01:04:59:04 – 01:05:01:08
Brian Benham
You know, just for the earbuds and just all day.
01:05:01:08 – 01:05:03:20
Eric Gorges
So yeah, I listen to a lot of books too.
01:05:04:01 – 01:05:11:13
Brian Benham
Yeah. And book a lot of books. Podcast and Pandora are the, are the three main things that are filling my earbuds all day.
01:05:12:03 – 01:05:32:10
Eric Gorges
I rarely listen to music anymore in the shop. It’s usually books and some podcast. It’s very rarely you know, I will. I’ll get in the mood for it and I’ll put some country on or some some outlaw country or some or some small jazz or something like that on, you know, but not as often as I used to.
01:05:32:11 – 01:05:47:07
Brian Benham
Yeah, I kind of go back and forth. Some days I’ll, I’ll be really into a whole bunch of podcasts and I’ll be like, Oh, I just need to rock out and just go. And yeah, but when I say Rock out, I don’t list a lot of rock music. Breaking out to me is like Count Basie, big band kind of stuff.
01:05:47:09 – 01:06:00:14
Eric Gorges
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Count bass. Yeah, I’ve been a big jazz guy since I was a teenager, and so I really enjoy a lot of the different genres and areas of jazz. Yeah, up to the seventies.
01:06:00:18 – 01:06:20:18
Brian Benham
That was my first attempt through, through college. My, I played the saxophone and I was going to my plan was to be a music teacher so I could play ah, so I could have like, health insurance and like a steady income. And then all summer I could just be out just jammin, like with whoever had hits. So that was, that was the dream.
01:06:20:18 – 01:06:28:09
Brian Benham
But it didn’t, it didn’t work out. And baking things with my hands just felt more, more right. So I ended up going that route.
01:06:28:09 – 01:06:31:05
Eric Gorges
I bet you can still play a pretty mean sax.
01:06:31:15 – 01:06:48:14
Brian Benham
You know, I, I hardly played, but my daughter is learning to play the saxophone and she brought her sax to me one day and she’s like, I think there’s something wrong with it. Like it’s not working right. And so I was like, okay, so let me give it a play. And it like started to come back. And then I was just like, that was just going.
01:06:48:14 – 01:06:53:00
Brian Benham
And she’s like, Okay, well, there’s nothing wrong with the sax. Mrs. Yeah, you just, you see.
01:06:53:01 – 01:06:53:18
Eric Gorges
Practice.
01:06:54:10 – 01:07:06:00
Brian Benham
You need some more air. So yeah, I got my now and I play it maybe once every other week when I have some free time, but not as much as I should or want to.
01:07:06:06 – 01:07:26:04
Greg Porter
I find it fascinating. You guys listen to things while you’re in the shop. My shop is is dead quiet as it can be because I work. I am a desk job and I work and I’m on the phone and on the computer and in meetings all day. The last thing I want is any noise. I just want it quiet and cathartic is how I say it.
01:07:26:04 – 01:07:32:19
Greg Porter
That’s that’s my complete, like, unwind. I could I could just do it for hours on end with without hearing a peep out of anyone.
01:07:33:02 – 01:07:40:18
Eric Gorges
Now I get back to man. I get that too, you know. But I usually like to have something. I don’t know, just something going on, you know?
01:07:41:02 – 01:07:47:08
Greg Porter
Yeah, we’ve been on for just over an hour. Do we want to do a quick little wrap up?
01:07:47:08 – 01:08:12:06
Brian Benham
Yeah. Any. Any. Every. Every episode we have a guest on. I try to ask some kind of stupid funny question. Or at least if I could get get an eye roll. So. I know. So you’re you’re making things in metal and steel. And for me, sanding is the worst part of the whole project. So is it worse to sand and steel for you or worse to sand metal?
01:08:12:09 – 01:08:40:01
Eric Gorges
Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know if I mind either one of them. You know, I honestly, I don’t you know, the thing is like sanding in the woodshop both jobs. Really? Like it’s having the right equipment, right? Like I tell you what, you know, I’m a big, fast tool guy. And the minute I used a fast two orbital, I was all in because I know the difference between a very well balanced machine and a capable machine and one that’s not.
01:08:40:10 – 01:09:00:19
Eric Gorges
And, you know, I don’t really mind either. I love metal finishing, you know, I love being able to take metal from a, you know, a 36 grit up to a 400 grit. I think it’s really cool that transition that it goes through, you know, And I love file work. Absolutely love and file work, you know. So I don’t know.
01:09:00:19 – 01:09:04:17
Eric Gorges
I dig it. Think of a new corny question.
01:09:04:17 – 01:09:22:20
Brian Benham
But that’s back. Yeah, that’s back to that Zen. The Zen thing for me, I’ve always been told that wood is carcinogenic, so a respirator. But when I worked in a metal shop, nobody wore a respirator, grinding metal. And I don’t know if it’s bad for you to breathe or because it just rests out your lungs and your body observes the iron.
01:09:22:20 – 01:09:30:11
Brian Benham
But the smell of metal, when you when you grind it or sand it. I just I know it brings me back to when I was a kid, but I like the smell of it.
01:09:30:11 – 01:09:35:19
Eric Gorges
Yeah. You talked about using a cut off earlier, and man, those fiber disks are nasty as hell.
01:09:35:22 – 01:09:37:22
Brian Benham
I probably shouldn’t be wearing a mask then. Ah.
01:09:38:09 – 01:09:52:15
Eric Gorges
That smell is forever cemented in my head, you know? And I don’t. I don’t. I don’t use the cut off a ton, you know, maybe once a week I’ll use it. But that smell is just. It sticks with you. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:54:12 – 01:10:04:07
Greg Porter
Well, awesome. Eric, it has been really great to sit down and chat with you tonight and really enjoyed having you on the program.
01:10:04:07 – 01:10:09:17
Eric Gorges
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it. Yeah, it was cool. It was just nice to chill, you know?
01:10:10:21 – 01:10:12:06
Brian Benham
Yeah, absolutely.
01:10:12:06 – 01:10:38:05
Greg Porter
Any time we can get a craftsman with the level of experience that you’ve got and in some of the stories that you shared, I think it’s just awesome to share with other people. So. So yeah, we’ll just kind of wrap it up right there. Again, appreciate having you on the show. I am Greg Porter. You can find me on social media, YouTube, Greg’s garage and Instagram, Greg’s garage as well as skyscraper guitars on both media.
01:10:38:06 – 01:11:07:08
Brian Benham
All right. And then special thanks to Eric Gorgeous. You can find him on Instagram at Voodoo Choppers and the Craftsman Legacy. Also his website Voodoo Choppers and Craftsman Legacy. And then definitely check out his YouTube channel. He has done some great shows for the Craftsman Legacy, interviewing some fantastic craftsmen along the way and it might be correct to say that you do have them from season one on up through or was just a few notes.
01:11:07:10 – 01:11:20:03
Eric Gorges
We’ve been working on migrating seasons one through four over to YouTube. We’re putting them up as classics five and six, and we’re getting ready to work on seven. Now. Those are all on YouTube.
01:11:20:03 – 01:11:36:22
Brian Benham
So definitely check out his YouTube channel, The Craftsman Legacy. And I’m Brian Benham. You can find me at Brian Benham dot com and that will have links to all my socials. And of course you are listening to the Makers Quest podcast. And we’ll have all those links for all three of us over in the show notes there. Thanks for listening.
